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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  September 28, 2009 7:00pm-8:00pm EDT

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ahead of him. he's really got to wrestle with who raise vegetables in campbell's condensed soup. the question of whether he is so if you've ever wondered who grew my soup, the senator from montana or the senator from the insurance well, here they are. industry. ♪ so many, many reasons it's a very simple question. ♪ it's so m'm! m'm! good! ♪ when you look at his constituents in that ad and see the human cost, i hope it gets when we spend a billion dollars a day buying foreign oil... through to him. i think it's a terrific thing we don't just waste our money... for progressives to do. we put our economy in the hands of hostile nations. it's long past due. >> and, you know, it is long past due. we let big oil make record profits... i'd like to see these guys flip. while we struggle. i mean, why not? and we lose new energy jobs, that go overseas. this is what the people want. but we can take charge of our economy... by passing strong clean energy legislation. why do i feel, joan walsh, that the white house staff is behind 1.7 million new american jobs. closed doors high fiving one less carbon pollution. and a cleaner america for our children. another saying, yeah, those it's time for clean american energy. liberal groups are going to get them now. >> i don't have a problem with that. i'm fine understanding the liberal and progressive group have to stick together and make this president, in the famous words of fdr, make me do these things. we have to make him do these things, be organize the, tough, smart. i'm okay with that.
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>> absolutely. great to have you with us. joan walsh, our staff received a phone call from congressman jim cooper's office in tennessee. he says he is firmly supporting a public ogs. two great things. number one, i'm glad they're watching and number two, most of all he's on the correct side of the issue. what do you think? do you think liberal groups targeting democrats is a good or bad idea? 92% said it's a good idea, 8% say that's a bad idea. that's "the ed show." sarah! you're home! "hardball" is next. on the nation's fastest 3g network. at&t. now get 50% all samsung touchscreen phones will israel attack iran? after mail-in rebate. let's play "hardball." only from at&t. so my mom decided to give them ours. it's the piano her dad gave her when she was a little girl. she loved it so much. good evening, i'm chris i don't know why she was so happy to give it away. matthews in washington. leading off tonight, will israel attack iran?
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that's the question. yesterday iran fired long-range missiles capable of reaching israel in a show of strength and will that raises the prospect that israel will strike first. will they? can they do it without our help, without our okay? would they? what are the consequences if israel does strike in iran's nuclear facilities? to israel? to the united states? what will the consequences be if iran gets nuclear weapons? would that mean the end of israel as a safe haven? next, do you remember when hillary clinton said the monica la win squi story was a frameup, conspiracy by the right to make her husband look like he had a sexual entanglement with the staffer? bill clinton says that conspiracy of the right continues. is he trying to spin away his scandal by identifying himself with president obama? if so, is he a good obama attack dog? what's behind the arrest of roman polanski in switzerland after he was charged with
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statutory rape involving a 13-year-old girl at that time in california. is this a case that should be prosecuted now that france and poland are urging secretary of state hillary clinton to grant clemency to the 76-year-old filmmaker? should president obama go to copenhagen this thursday to pitch for chicago? to get the 2016 olympics with all the other stuff boiling in pot now? that's in "the politics fix." the so-called birthers aren't giving up. they have an infomercial and are giving out gifts. you can add your name to a petition for the president to produce additional documents to we're back with susan page prove he was born in hawaii. more on the crazies in the and tom defrank. "hardball" "sideshow." a little fun tonight this monday night. the president of the united states announced apparently he michael ruben is a president was inspired up at the meeting with the american enterprises institute. bob bare, former cia officer. of the g-20 to hawk his city. i think it's a case of all politics. locally he's guarding his base, a columnist for the state of illinois and the city of the chicago and the is it plausible in the next year country, the united states. or so israel will strike at is this something he'll be
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rewarded for in years to come if nuclear facilities in iran? >> absolutely plausible. we get the olympics in 2016? susan page. it is. they view iran and the iranian >> yeah, rewarded if it works. i think it would be a little nuclear threat as an existential embarrassing if the u.s. president goes on this red eye threat meaning they don't feel if diplomacy fails that they can to copenhagen and doesn't bring back the olympic games. live with a nuclear iran. their assessment is different i assume they're pretty than ours. confident he's going to be able >> the odds are? to deliver it. >> greater than 50/50. the americans are great. >> let me go to bob. americans love to host them. is it plausible? and for them to go to the president's hometown that would that israel will strike at iran? be pretty cool. >> i think it's 50/50 or better. >> i'm not optimistic. i agree with michael. i think you go to a white european country, western country, go from london to they look at the complete picture on this. chicago, doesn't that turn off they look at lebanon, the fact the rest of the world? isn't it more likely you go to a the islamic guard corps has the latin country like rio -- missiles and have to do >> or madrid. something now. i don't think sanctions are rio, perhaps. >> something that is not part of going to work. the white world, if you will. >> do they, bigger question, to you, because it's about the >> i don't think it's going to be tokyo, but my sense, chris, united states, does the united states have to give them its is this is classic damage control. compliance its help, its okay? i think if the president were not to go and it doesn't become chicago, then i think he might can israel strike on their own? take a little political heat. >> israel can strike on its own but can't finish the job on its own.
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it would take over 1,000 sources to do it right. worst possible scenario for us would be israel starts something and the region becomes so messy. >> you think we should help them? >> the idea if the worst case scenario is military action we've got to ratchet up the other forms right now and we have to be prepared. >> i'm trying to get to a question. does israel need our help to do the job? >> no. >> okay. let me go to bob baer. do they need our okay to push iraq to give them airspace and that sort of thing to get to the target in iran? >> if you're sitting on the ground in iraq and you're an american air controller and see israeli airplanes coming your way, how many minutes is the white house going to say yes or no? chances of saying no are zero. i don't think they'll need our help but we will be drawn into a war as a consequence. >> technically they could carry out the mission? >> they could start the mission. >> let's go to the question, should we help them?
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if they decide, if netanyahu makes a decision as prime minister of israel facing what you believe he sees as an existential threat to the future of israel and decides to make the attack, should we help him? >> the calculation has got to be on our interest. if the region is going to get messy we have to protect united states interests if iran retaliates. >> if you were asked by the president, should we help them, would you say yes or not? >> not the time. >> you wouldn't say yes? >> no. >> would you say, help them? >> absolutely not. >> i understand it's much for difficult to do it themselves. >> we can't help them. we don't have enough troops. we would need 1 million troops in the gulf, do something an the oil facilities to protect them. can by afford oil at $400 a barrel, afford the mischief making in iraq? the answer's no. >> let's get to that point now. you both agree israel might do it. you both agree it's more
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difficult for them to do it without us but they could do it. right now the answer is we shouldn't encourage them to do it. >> we should not. >> the fourth question, if they attack the israeli nuclear facilities as netanyahu threatens to do, he's only giving our government this year. what would be the consequence in order of importance? we'll get to the consequence of not attacking later. >> the most important consequence of an attack is it would delay iran's nuclear program and enough. >> enough meani inmeaning? >> to outlast the iranian ray gem. >> it would have a good effect? >> it would have a good effect. >> what are the bad effects? >> nothing like a military strike would rally the iranian people around the flag more. the best thing that ever happens -- >> i talked to an iranian immigrant today that lives in this country, american now. he believes we give a 20-year life span to that faction, the ahmadinejad crowd.
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>> i think that's possible. people rally around the flag. >> it puts them off for a long time. number two, they rally behind ahmadinejad. the first worst-case scenarios you see, bob, if they attack the facilities. >> i think, again, it's the gulf. it's the security of our oil. i harp on this. that's what the iranians have said they're going to do. if they're attacked, no matter how minor the attack is, they're going to respond against oil. nothing we can do about it. that's what worries me in iraq as well. >> shut off all oil shipments through the straits, right? >> it takes 6 million barrels off instantaneously and we can't defend it. >> doesn't that strangle hold, that choke hold, have a life stan of itself? can they keep doing that without committing suicide economically? >> they're prepared to commit suicide. >> they are. >> they can. they're ready to. >> i absolutely agree. iran is not a democracy. it doesn't matter what the
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ordinary people think in the government's calculation. they will look at it. the leadership of iran is the leadership that grew up in the iran/iraq war. they look at this and say the vegetables are expensive. when i was your age, i was fighting mustard -- >> i know you're emotional, passionate on this, not emotional. is it possible, michael, the attack by israel, which netanyahu has threatened to carry out if we don't stop something, could be the beginning of a horrendous amount of action in the world? not just the end but the beginning of spiking prices for oil? hezbollah attacks all over the place, not just israel. what do you see happening? >> absolutely. you have to balance that with if iran does go nuclear you're going to have an end of the puck lar nonproliferation rejeem and cascade throughout the world. >> final question tonight. then i want to get to quotes by people here. bob baer, what happens if we let
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israel, discourage israel successfully and even meet netanyahu leading a faction there with lieberman. he decides not to move because he says he doesn't want you to move. what happens to the world if israel is faced with a neighbor that hates it, wants to destroy it? does that basically kill the notion of israel as a safe aven? in other words, young people in their young 20s, young engineers, biotechnicians and all would no longer want to live in that country because it's under a nuclear threat. do you think that's a real prospect? >> i think israel is under existential threat. if iran continues to grow as a superpower in the gulf, ultimately it will affect the survivability. the israelis have a point. >> that point is strong enough it means their life? do you buy that argument that their life's at stake? not over a year or two, but eventually you cannot have an
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israeli jewish state succeed if it's under a nuclear threat that hates it. >> there's a psychological threat. >> by the way, a real psychological threat. it's not in the head. >> just as important is the uncertainty over who would control a nuclear bomb should iran achieve that capability. >> press the button? >> who has the button and under what circumstances would it be used. >> who do you think is in charge in iran now? who is making the decision to fire off rockets, making the decision to proceed in a way that looks like they're going toward weaponization? who's calling that shot? homoni, the boss, the supreme leader, ahmadinejad, a faction in the backroom of old men, religious people? who's making the call, bob baer, to go to war with us basically on this? >> the islamic guard corps. the new defense managers. don't forget he blew up the embassy in argentina. these guys have blood on their
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hands and can't predict what they're going to do. >> michael? >> still has ultimate control with the revolutionary guard. the problem is nobody knows about the factions inside the revolutionary guard corps. it's a black box. politics we talk about reformers, hard liners. the real decision making is inside that islamic revolutionary guard. >> a fellow i know in hollywood said to me the only smart israeli action is to not blow up the facilities but to take out the leadership. is that a feasible israeli style possibility? could they go in and take out the leadership faction? kill them? could they do that? decapitate this government? >> country's too big. israel air force is too small. 71 million people. we're talking about -- the result would be a conventional war. it would look like world war iii. >> i would agree with that. you go after the leadership if it can prevent the war. in this case it can't.
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>> you see it written along the lines in terms of knocking out -- killing one person, like a really bad guy out there. is it feasible for israel to do an assault where they go in and find six or seven guys in the faction behind ahmadinejad and kill them? done stuff like this on the west bank. >> what's much more feasible, if iran has buried nuclear facilities under mountains, they don't have to destroy the facilities but the entrances to them. >> how long do they keep those sealed? >> set the program back a year or two and hope the international community actually becomes active. >> the trouble is the international community from an israeli point. it goes the other way. >> the intelligence isn't good enough. >> yeah. yeah. what i've heard is a scenario is they blow up -- in the short run do the best they can and say more coming if they keep going. >> i have heard that argument. what's interesting is it's the same argument that was made when the israelis went over after the iraqi reactor in 2001. >> how much longer do we both have -- you both have.
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not me. you're the experts. how much longer, michael, bob, do we have to keep netanyahu from acting? >> months, if not weeks. >> houngs does the united states have leverage over netanyahu not to attack iran? a year? >> he's given three months. he's got to see something happening in three months or he's going to start his plan. they've already started their planning. >> i think we're on the same page on this. pretty scarscary. thank you. coming up, bill clinton says the conspiracy that created the monica mess for him is still at large and is going after obama. is this talk helpful? this thing about a conspiracy out there? i wonder if that's helpful. you know what i think. you've only got so many hours in a day to get your five servings of vegetables. consider this... the express route. v8. what's your number?
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welcome back to "hardball." former president bill clinton weighed in on president obama's right wing critics, likening them to the critics he faced in '98. let's listen. this was on "meet the press." >> your wife famously talked about the vast right wing conspiracy targeting you. as you look at this opposition on the right to president obama, is it still there? >> oh, you bet. sure it is. it's not as strong as it was, because america has changed demographically, but it's as ve veerlent as it was. they're saying things about him -- like when they accused me of murder and all that stuff they did. >> joining me is the real expert on the man we just saw, former clinton white house press secretary dee dee myers, and msnbc political analyst pat buchanan. first of all, the word that jumps out at me is "conspiracy." let's take a listen to when that word was first used in '98 by --
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we don't have it. the then first lady when she talked about -- i think we're the only show on television that doesn't have it. it's been playing all day today. the '98 -- it was playing all day, we know hillary was on with matt lauer, i believe after the monica story broke, and she said there was no truth to it, implied it was a confection of the right. is this good for the clintons to bring back the word "conspiracy" and "vast?" >> of let's be fair. the clintons didn't bring back the word. david gregory asked the question, which included the phrase vast right wing conspiracy, and then he said, that opposition, is it still out there? >> but is it a conspiracy, or is it just a bunch of crazies out there obviously doing what they're doing, attacking his citizenship, et cetera, et cetera? >> i'm not a big conspiracy theorist. you can debate the word "conspiracy." yeah, it's big. is there a connection? these people have connections through professional associations. yeah. is there somebody sitting at the top of the pyramid directing it? no. >> is it helpful for barack
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obama to be identified as the victim of the same forces that brought bill clinton to impeachment? is it helpful? >> i think it helps shore up the base, reminds people out there this isn't the first time we have seen this movie before. we have seen a lot of this movie before. organized opposition. >> that's the new phrase, isn't it? >> what, the movie? >> well, i think -- >> at the end of the day, is one of the phrases -- >> yeah. a bridge too far is my favorite. >> let's go to pat -- pat buchanan, your thoughts about this vast right wing conspiracy, which hillary clinton blamed for the trouble her husband got in. i don't buy that. i think he got into his own trouble. they exploited -- obviously ken starr loved it, and i think probably went well beyond their brief to nail the guy, by having -- setting him up in that paula jones deposition that caught him. they set up a fly trap and caught a fly. your thoughts, pat. >> come on, chris, there is no right wing conspiracy. is there a conservative movement that disagrees on the war in
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afghanistan, which is united on health care? i would say talk show hosts, columnists and commentators, bloggers, political activists, some of the more hawkish fellows in congress? sure there is a conservative movement, and sure it opposes barack obama because he thinks he's a liberal. but good heavens, 60 votes in the senate, a bullet-proof majority, he's got a 75-vote margin in the house. and they're wailing and crying that the conservatives oppose him? chris, there ain't any conservative conspiracy. most guys i know couldn't organize a softball team. do they really think they're getting together with rush and hannity and buchanan and george hill? and we all get together every day? >> but dee dee has been wise to offer the queen sacrifice three minutes ago when she said, all right, i'll give you the word conspiracy. >> and i think pat is right. most of the people we have worked with in these kind of organizations couldn't organize a softball team. >> and by the way, they want credit for what they do. >> right. >> they want everybody to know
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everything they do. you know? if bill crystal has got a point of view he's pushing about bringing down health care again, he wants us all to know. frank lunds wants us all to know he coined the phrase. these guys are marketers. >> chris, let me ask you something, if richard nixon got caught in the oval office with a 21-year-old intern, it would not take a conspiracy to get all of the liberals coming down on him with both feet. >> pat, you and i are married to the truth of that. i am absolutely convinced that at the time of any -- when nixon was president, if he had been involved with anybody -- of either sex, anybody of any age, in fact, that wasn't pat, you know, anybody but pat, he would have been taken out in a stretcher. i'm sorry, even taken out in a straightjacket. and the media would have been saying it was a psychological thing, they had to assert the 23rd amendment, and they had to haul him out of there. you know that's true, dee dee.
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there is a different standard here for a popular president. by the way, the economy was so good in '98, that's the reason bill was able to escape. >> well, i think it's almost the opposite. i think that we were in a time of peace and prosperity, and the country had the luxury of elevating this. >> oh, i'm sorry. >> to an impeachment. are you kidding me? >> let me go back to a fact here. i like a fact here. in the newest book called "the clinton tapes," which are actually not the tapes or about the tapes, bill clinton points out that his big mistake was thinking that he had impeachment beat when he did so well in the '98 elections when the congressional republicans did so badly. and he thought he had it beaten. and he thought he watched impeachment away and the tide of public disapproval was his phrase to his friend, taylor branch. disapproval was his phrase. he was wrong, because they had a party -- pat, that's remained his mistake. he thought he had it beat in the electoral situation. what he didn't realize, the caucus on capitol hill was loaded for bear and wouldn't stop. even if they lost the election over it. >> he was not entirely wrong.
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the house went ahead with it, red hots did it, but they walked it over to the senate and senate wanted no part of it, chris. they wanted that thing out of there, because they thought it was responsible for the defeat. but again, president clinton was doing fairly well, as dee dee said. he brought that on himself. anybody that had gotten in a mess like that, especially clinton, because of his history, i mean, he just -- he dealt these cards right into the hands of his opposition, and he shouldn't have been surprised they ran with them. >> okay. is it helpful to pat -- not to pat buchanan. everything is helpful to you, pat, whether anybody wins or loses in any election for some reason. and you should, of course. let me ask, dee dee, is it helpful to barack obama to have bill clinton out there comparing his problems of 1998 with monica with barack obama's problems on health care? is it helpful to barack obama? >> i didn't hear president clinton do that, but i think what is helpful -- >> yes, he did. can we play it again?
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>> i'm tell you what's helpful when he points out as he did, the republicans don't have a plan. they don't have any alternative, they're just out there. they're not acting in the best interest of the country in their opposition to barack obama. >> i think our colleague, david gregory, was smart enough to know that bill clinton would go for the bait if he asked him, weren't you really unfairly -- >> wow, that's a really high standard there, chris. i mean, come on. dangle right wing conspiracy in front of bill clinton, see if he'll bite. wow, let's lay the odds. come on. i think the president was trying to be helpful. i think he said times were a little tougher for me. i wasn't trying -- >> i loved your smile. i think we have agreed this is probably not helpful. >> i think there are elements that are helpful, though, when he talks about the republicans -- i think president clinton, one of his great strengths, always brought it back to the country. let's debate the issues. let's talk about policy. >> i think he always brought to back to bill clinton.
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>> i think he always brought it back to policy and that's why he survived. >> you know what he had going for him, bill clinton, i sentenced that no matter how many problems, as a human being, obviously. i think people thought he was looking out for the average person. >> i agree. >> pat, that was his great appeal. a sears robuck, working class, middle class guy who remembered where he came from. and in the end, that's what kept him in office. the people thought he was with them. they were maybe right. >> well, i'll say this, he also was kept in the office by the fact that he has a tremendous coalition behind him that stood with him during the hard times and fought very hard. but what david gregory's question showed, chris, it's only about a quarter of an inch below the surface, he felt they were all out to get him, and david gregory popped it right up to the surface. >> and pat, that's so unusual for a president. isn't it? >> i want you to admit this on camera. one time you said to me, everything you believe is true about bill clinton. i think that's true. the good, the bad, the everything. it's all true. dee dee myers here with us from "vanity fair" and pat buchanan
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from the permanent conservative movement. up next, could we see another cheney many public office? tomorrow on "hardball," filmmaker michael moore joins us. we couldn't get polanski. we're shopping for car insurance, and our friends said we should start here. good friends -- we compare our progressive direct rates, apples to apples, against other top companies, to help you get the best price. how do you do that? with a touch of this button. can i try that? [ chuckles ] wow! good luck getting your remote back. it's all right -- i love this channel. shopping less and saving more. now, that's progressive. call or click today. has a way to get things cooking..... at home. they're macaroni grill dinner kits, the restaurant favorites that'll ignite your senses.
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back to "hardball." time for the sideshow. first up, it doesn't end. remember the birthers, that group of right wing crazies, claiming that barack obama was not born in america, and therefore isn't a legitimate president? in fact, claiming he is an illegal immigrant who should be deported? well, the fundamentalist website, has put out a birther infomercial, which, according to talking points memo, is playing in seven states right now. let's take a listen.
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>> where was president obama born? why does he refuse to produce his official state of hawaii birth certificate? what's he hiding? now your voice can be heard in this matter. you can help by going to your phone and calling 1-800-321-[ bleep ] and have your name added to a petition to force president obama to obey the law. join hundreds of thousands of americans who simply want the truth. as a thank you for being part of this petition drive, you will receive this essentially create the "got a birth certificate butcher sticker." act now, call 1-800-321 [ bleep ] and tell president obama to prove where he was born. >> how about this? how about if the obama people go dig up additional documentation these people want to prove that he's not in the country illegally, they agree to leave the country. they agree to leave! how about giving the president some bonus points for offering up more documentation than anyone else born in hawaii is asked to do?
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he stays, they leave. next up, passing the torch. here's the front page of today's "new york times." new cheney taking stage for the gop. it spotlights dick cheney's daughter, liz, as a rising star in the republican party. the in holds barred defender of cheney's policies. quote, this is from "the times." like her father, miss cheney states in almost academic cadences, head veering down into her notes. she also shares his willingness to pummel the president in stark, disdainful tones, not so much criticizing as taunting him. well, the "new york times" piece made one error. the reporter, mike leibovitz, an excellent reporter otherwise says liz uses her maiden name. that's not technically correct. she has adopted the more cheney. that's one case of like father, unlike daughter. finally, batter up. newest addition to the supreme court, justice sotomayor, threw
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out the ceremonial first pitch to the yankees this weekend. hero to baseball fans everywhere for issues an injunction in 1995 that led to the end of that baseball strike. sotomayor got the yankees off to a good afternoon. they beat the strikes 3-0. not that that's good for the country. time for today's "big number." we learned today president obama will be traveling to copenhagen to especially make the case for chicago host the 2016 olympic games. according to the traders over in dublin-based, what are the chance the president will win over the olympic committee? well, 65% chance and rising. if he wins, so does tip o'neill's old rule that all politics is local. 65% chance of the second city becoming the first city of the world in 2016. that's tonight's "big number." up next, why was 76-year-old filmmaker roman polanski arrested now, more than 30 years after he was charged with statutory rape?
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american authorities push for his arrest. europeans are mad about it. but is justice being served here? that's our debate, coming up. you're watching it. national car rental knows i'm picky. so, at national, i go right past the counter... and you get to choose any car in the aisle. choose any car? you cannot be serious! okay. seriously, you choose. go national. go like a pro. (announcer) we understand. you want faster ground shipping. but what we can do is arm ourselves... for the ones we love with a flu shot from walgreens. ♪ ( coughs ) ♪ ( sneezes ) we're making it easy for everyone to get their flu shot, no matter how small their motivation may be. ♪
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i'm christina brown. the secret service is investigating a provocative survey on facebook, the poll set up by a private user asked should president obama be killed? the choices, no, maybe, yes, and yes if he cuts my health care. the poll went up on saturday but was quickly taken down after users alerted company officials. authorities have identified three possible accomplices in an alleged plot to carry out terror bombings on u.s. soil. court papers indicate the suspect helped accused plotter
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najibullah zazi buy ingredients for homemade bombs. the government of honduras shut down two dissident broadcasters. shut down a radio and a television station today hours after taking steps to suspend civil liberties. big day on wall street. acquisitions activity sent stocks soaring. dow gained more than 124 points on word of takeover deals of xerox and abbott labs. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." as you have no doubt heard by now, filmmaker roman polanski has been arrested in switzerland 30 years after he fled the u.s. after pleading guilty to having sex with a 13-year-old girl. polanski directed some of the most acclaimed movies of the '60s and '70s, "rosemary's baby" which was his first american
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feature film. "china town" in '74 nominated. he had a brief appearance alongside jack nicholson. let's listen. >> very nosey fellow. huh? know what happens to nosey fellows, huh? no? want to guess? >> that's where he cuts his nose. he is presently in a swiss jail. joining me is prosecutor wendy murphy, and san francisco mayor and friend of polanski. wendy, for the prosecution, go ahead. >> this guy admitted to raping a child. we are not talking about sex. we're certainly not talking about statutory rape. the 17-year-old boy had sex with his 14-year-old girlfriend. he was in his mid 40s, gave her drugs, booze, raped her in a lot of different ways. we're talking sodomy and other styles of rape. then pleads guilty. decides he shouldn't have to pay with the real kind of punishment most people face when they rape
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kids. takes off then thumbs his nose at this country's legal system, going to parties, hanging around on the west bank, doing whatever he felt like doing for 30 years. that's the sort of guy who deserves not only to be extradited, but when he gets here, he gets extra punishment, no discounts. i am sick to my stomach to hear people say, well, he's really a smart guy. a brilliant director. and terrific artist. since i read the constitution, i didn't see a brilliant director exception to the punishment part. >> just to get the facts straight, you say that he admitted all of those charges, all of the drugs and the -- >> no. >> he pled guilty to all of that? >> no, he did not. no, no, no. he admitted his guilt to raping a child. he was charged with six felonies, he admitted to one. that's already a big discount, chris. >> i'm not arguing, just trying to get the facts. did he admit guilt to the way you describe it? supplying her with booze, drugs,
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did he admit to those factors? did he or did he not? >> i don't know if he admitted to the drugs or the booze. i said he was charged with six, he admitted to one. that was already a discount. they sent him to a rubber room for 42 days, they were going to send him to jail, he said i don't think i deserved that, and he booked it. he deserves to go to jail for a long time. >> the prosecution, did they accept his plea of consensual sex with a 13-year-old, not that i agree there is such a thing as consensual sex, but did they accept that plea? >> there was a guilty plea, yes. they accepted it. in other words, he was going to be punished for raping a child. you can't claim consent. it doesn't matter. >> right. i know that -- i know the law. >> not part of the story at all. he admitted raping a child. >> he jumped bail on the issue of -- of a deal that had been struck, whereby he would get -- what kind of a sentence? >> i don't know what the deal was that he thought he was getting, except it's been reported he thought he was going to get out of the mental ward and walk home. and then it's been reported that he then heard the judge was not
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going to go along with the deal. maybe it's because when they checked him out in the mental hospital, he didn't come out real good. maybe they thought he was a little more dangerous than they believed when they sent him over. i don't know. and i don't know what he was facing. but it was a two to four year maximum penalty at that time. and he thought that was too much and for what he did to that child, are you kidding me? >> fair enough. let's go to willy brown for the defense. should this man be extradited to the united states and face charges and perhaps as wendy murphy said, face additional charges for escaping justice? >> no, he should not. as a matter of fact, chris, the deal in los angeles at the time between the prosecution and mr. dalton, the defense lawyer for roman polanski, was agreed to by the judge. he was sent to an evaluation facility at chino in california. at that facility, they made the appropriate recommendations, consistent with what the judge had agreed to. the judge, on the other hand,
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began to be pillared with information and nonsense, similar to what wendy is offering to the public here. and as a result of that, he wanted to back out of the deal. the prosecutor was kind enough to tell mr. dalton, the lawyer for roman, that, in fact, the judge was reneging on the deal. the deal was a very simple one. whatever the recommendations apparently would be from chino would be what the sentence would be. the recommendations from chino was, he needed no further incarceration. the judge apparently said, i won't do that, and with that, mr. polanski left. but let's talk clearly about what occurred in switzerland. mr. polanski has a residence in switzerland. he's been living there, during the ski season for the last 20 or 30 years. he was over there for about ten weeks already this year. the question is, how is it that on this occasion, he is grabbed at the airport? well, it's very simple. there was a film done.
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a documentary done on this case. and in that film, it was clear, from the evidence collected by the filmmakers, that there had been some hanky-panky carried on by the prosecution in order to get the judge to back out. the prosecutor, who had made the deal, was not involved in that nonsense, and so said it on that film. the woman who was the victim, the child, as is being described here, says very clearly that this is not something that we should re-open. she is perfectly satisfied 30 years later with what would have been the disposition. all of that was done. the minute the film was done, of course, mr. polanski's lawyers moved to court to see if they could not, for misconduct, get this whole matter set aside. that's why the los angeles district attorney's office went to the u.s. attorney's office and got them to issue that
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parent that has resulted in mr. polanski's being arrested. >> okay, let's let wendy in here. your reaction to what mr. brown just said. >> well, due respect, sir. the defense filed a motion, wanting to raise exactly those questions about some grave miscarriage of justice, and thus his plea apparently should be withdrawn because of the judge's misconduct. what matters is, the judge said, i'll hear you. i believe you. come on, let's have a hearing. come back to this country, and let's have a hearing. and guess who didn't show. that would be mr. polanski. which tells you a lot about whether he really thought he had a case on that score. and, you know, look, the bottom line is, sometimes people do things for political motivation. let's not distract the public from the fact that he pled guilty to raping a child. so all of the shenanigans you allege, you want to make something of that, bring him back, talk about it, but don't forget he admitted his guilt to
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a very serious crime. none of that other stuff matters. as much as you want to make that a smoke and mirrors game, so that the public doesn't remember what he did to a child, 13 -- he was in his mid 40s, drugs, alcohol, multiple types of rape. you can talk all you want about the political motivations of the people involved, and i don't particularly care what the victim wants. she's not the government. it is not her responsibility. and isn't it funny that she decided to forgive him after she cashed the big fat check he handed her in the settlement? you don't indulge payoffs in the criminal justice system. face the music. accept the responsibility. that's when i'll have mercy for the guy. >> let me ask the mayor. was roman polanski actually guilty of the charge of statutory rape? was guilty? >> he entered a plea of guilty. i was not there. i assumed that if he entered a plea of guilty, he was, in fact, guilty.
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there is always, in any criminal proceeding, an opportunity to settle the matter. it's called plea bargaining. and in this case, the plea bargain occurred. some prosecutors, as evidenced by this prosecutor's expression, don't like plea bargaining. plea bargaining is done by the prosecutor who has the case. in this case, the prosecutor who had this case is now saying very clearly, this was not something that should be done. i.e., mr. polanski should not be grabbed. in addition thereto, there is absolutely no requirement that mr. polanski show up for the process that is being addressed where a question of misconduct may be involved. the witnesses for that are the ones who are required to show up. prosecutors, like the one on this station, doesn't like that. but that's a reality. >> don't mischaracterize what i say. >> quickly now. >> i was just going to say, look at, sometimes the judge does
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disagree with the deal, and that's okay. here's what defendants are allowed to do when that happens. they withdraw their guilty plea, and they go to trial. they don't go to france. >> okay of. well, thank you very much, wendy murphy. thank you, willie brown. it's been a great extradition of both sides of the arguments. up next, president obama will go to copenhagen to try to win the olympics for the city of chicago this week. but with everything else on his plate like health care, afghanistan and iran is that a good move for our president? and by the way, is it important enough to do it? the "politics fix" is up next. show and tell you weren't always my favorite day. with all the pet hair in the air, i'd spend class preoccupied, bothered by itchy eyes. but now i have new zyrtec® itchy eye drops. it works fast, with just one drop, to relieve my itchy eyes from allergies for up to 12 hours. no other allergy itchy eye drop works faster or longer. which is good, 'cause there's a lotta paws to shake. with new zyrtec® itchy eye drops i can love the air™.
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we're back and it's time for "usa today's" susan page. you know, it does seem that people -- well, i don't want to say "our age" except tom and i. but this seems to be the summer of death. so many people we know in public life, not just movie stars but people in our sort of part of the world are dying. and just this other day, when i got to work the other day from one of my producer, bill safire died. on top of buckley and chris cal and novak. one of the real guys, all those years running a column for "the new york times," speechwriter for nixon and agnew. years before that one of the most showboating great panache pr guys who created the kitchen debate in '69 with nixon and kruschev. thom, you're smiling. there's brezhnev to the right.
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he cut that event up where we got to show our commercialism at its best. >> i was smiling because i met bill safire in 1971 as a fill-in white house correspondent for "newsweek" magazine. i was 25 years old. and he was part of that murderer's row of speechwriters for richard nixon. pat buchanan, ray price, bill safire. they were fabulous. but what struck me was here was this guy who already had a reputation because of the kitchen -- kitchen debate there, but he was gentle, mild-mannered, soft-spoken, and then as he later learned -- well, his writing for -- >> okay. >> here it is. >> susan, i want to show you this. i'm showing a book. oftentimes, i do the safire political dictionary, language we use on shows like this, such as "hardball," he created in 1968. he came up with a term back then. i developed, obviously, a
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variety of uses on that term. your thoughts, susan on the passing of one of the real mentions in political life, bill safire. >> i've got that political dictionary on my desk, too. i remember when he was hired by "the times" and there was concern he would be a nixon apologist. he turned out to be pretty much a nixon defender but also a good reporter. he kept using his shoe leather and he had a terrific sense of humor. i remember those year-end columns every year with prediction where is he'd have a lot of outlandish predictions. the end of the year he would always be predicting that his side was going to win. >> yeah. he brought that, a good guy but got in a lot of trouble. this guy brought him down. he won the pulitzer prize for commentary but really for reporting. the late, great friend of mine and all of ours, william safire. won't be another guy like him for a while. we'll be back to talk about something a lot more fun. the president is going to copenhagen to pitch his city. he wants to go to copenhagen.
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the l.a. district attorney wants to get polanski this way.
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